Saaz: Your childhood was
marked by hardship, malnutrition, and poverty. You’ve spoken of the strength
and skills this gave you – how did you develop them? As a diplomat, what
solutions would you suggest for helping children in similar situations?
Kishore: Since Singapore
is now one of the most affluent countries in the world, many Indians are
unaware that at independence, Singapore was one of the poorest countries in the
world. In 1965, its per capita income was the same as Ghana in Africa: $500. I
experienced this poverty personally. I was put on a special feeding programme
when I went to school at the age of 6 as I was technically undernourished. Our
home had no flush toilet. Debt collectors would come to our house regularly. My
father went to jail. Yet, I was able to overcome many of these adversities
because I had an unusually strong mother who never broke down under all these
pressures. The resilience I developed in my life was a gift from her to me.
One reason why I wrote my
memoirs is that I wanted to give hope to young people who may be suffering the
same kind of difficult childhood I had experienced. It’s good for young people
to understand that people like them have overcome difficult circumstances.
Saaz: Your book praises
Lee Kuan Yew (who often gave you a tough time) extensively. What measures from
his leadership could India adopt for better development?
Kishore: Singapore’s
exceptional success as a country was due in large part to three of its
exceptional founding fathers: Lee Kuan Yew, Dr Goh Keng Swee, and S.
Rajaratnam. One of the great privileges of my life was getting to know all
three of them well. From them, I learnt a lot about how countries could succeed
in development. I distilled many of the lessons I learned from them into the
acronym “MPH”. In this case, it doesn't stand for “miles per hour” but for
“Meritocracy, Pragmatism and Honesty”, which is the secret formula for
Singapore's success.
Meritocracy is about choosing
the best people to run your organisation, society or country. Lee Kuan Yew was
insistent that only the best should be selected to serve in the government.
Pragmatism is about being
willing to learn best practices from any source anywhere in the world. Dr Goh
Keng Swee once said to me that no matter what problems Singapore encounters,
somebody somewhere must already have encountered it. Hence, Singapore should
proactively learn lessons from other countries. Dr Goh also pointed out that
since Japan was the first Asian country to succeed, Singapore should study
Japan carefully if it wanted to succeed as well. India could also learn lessons
from Japan's development.
Honesty is about eliminating
corruption. This is crucial as trust and stability are essential for an economy
to thrive. Unfortunately, this is also the hardest principle to implement.
I believe that any society in
the world, including India, would succeed and do well if it implemented the
secret Singapore MPH formula.
Saaz: Could you tell us
something about the different diplomatic communities you encountered?
Kishore: Walking into the
UN headquarters and experiencing a real global village of representatives from
159 countries was always a thrill for me. Though we all came from strikingly
different cultures and traditions, we were able to forge many close friendships
with each other based on our common humanity.
When I joined the UN in 1984,
some of my Arabian colleagues declared that I belonged to their tribe because
my surname, Mahbubani, comes from an Arabic/Persian word, “mahbub,” which means
“beloved.” Most Sindhis are Muslims. Due to my Sindhi roots, I felt some degree
of cultural affinity with both the Arab countries and Iran. And since I sported
a beard then, I was occasionally mistaken for an Iranian diplomat when I was
seen without a tie.
The ambassadors from the five
founding member states of ASEAN—Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines,
Singapore, and Thailand—came together like comrades in arms to defend our
common interests. I also became very close to the African ambassadors, whom I
found to be incredibly reliable and trustworthy. If you became friends with
them, they would remain steadfast and stick with you through thick and thin.
I also worked with US
ambassadors who were polar opposites: Ambassador Vernon Walters was incredibly
warm and generous and won many friends for the US, while Ambassador Jean
Kirkpatrick was harsh and condescending towards the UN community in a bid to
win favour with right-wing politicians at home. While American diplomats could
be very direct and candid, they could also mingle easily with all
nationalities. By contrast, European diplomats seemed to have an irrepressible
desire to preach to other countries about human rights issues. I was therefore
shocked to witness the incredible evasive skills of the Western diplomats when
I chaired the oversight committee of the UN Programme of Action for African
Economic Recovery and Development (UNPAAERD). They expertly avoided making any
concrete and binding commitments to help the African countries despite the
passionate speeches they had given in the UNGA about wanting to do so.
Saaz: Please tell us about
your visit to Sindh.
Kishore: When Shaukat
Aziz, whom I had met in New York and Singapore when he was the Vice President
of Citibank, became Prime Minister of Pakistan (2004 to 2007), he invited me to
visit Pakistan. I went to Karachi, Hyderabad, Islamabad and Lahore. It was a
fascinating visit. Then Pakistani High Commissioner to Singapore Ambassador
Sajjad Ashraf also arranged a special visit to Hyderabad, where my mother had
grown up. While my mother was sadly no longer with us, her brother, Mr
Jhamatmal Kripalani, was able to draw me a map to their childhood home.
Fortunately, we were able to find it.
Since I had grown up listening
to stories of how Muslims and Hindus had killed each other during Partition, I
expected to encounter hostility in Hyderabad when I went to search for my
mother's home. Instead, every Muslim person I met in Pakistan received me very
warmly and was delighted to see me. The reception could not have been warmer. I
was glad to learn that a lot of the hostility from the Partition days had
dissipated.
Saaz: As someone who has
made Sindhis proud with your exceptional success, please suggest measures by
which members of your community could enhance the way they are perceived.
Kishore: Sindhis are a
remarkable people. There are very few ethnic groups in the world who have
managed to succeed in all corners of the world. The Sindhis are one of them.
Having visited most of the major cities in the world, I'm always pleasantly
surprised to see members of the Sindhi community thriving and succeeding in all
corners of the world. Indeed, I have first cousins in all corners of the world:
in Suriname and Guyana in South America, in Texas and Florida in North America,
in Ghana and Nigeria in Africa, in Japan and Hong Kong in East Asia, and of
course in Mumbai and Kolkata in India. I also have relatives in Europe. The
entrepreneurship of the Sindhi community is truly admirable.
In the next chapter of its
development, India will have to engage the rest of the world more. Its trade
and investment links with other countries will also increase. One of its major
assets as it plunges ever more deeply into globalisation will be the strong and
successful ethnic Indian communities overseas. Undoubtedly, the Sindhis will
rank among some of the most successful Indians overseas. Their contributions
should receive greater recognition within India.
Saaz: Your advice for
young people who wish to follow a career in diplomacy?
Kishore: Diplomacy is one
of the best professions in the world to join. Since we live in a small and
shrinking world, all countries must now make a major effort to understand other
countries and cultures all over the world. And the people who are best placed
to do so are diplomats.
As I explain in my memoirs, I
had no intentions of staying on in diplomacy, as I wanted to return to academia
after graduating. However, I discovered diplomacy to be a more fulfilling
profession than academia. I realised that in trying to defend the interests of
a small country like Singapore in the international community, I was defending
an underdog. Ambassadors from smaller countries have to work harder than
ambassadors from larger countries. Fortunately, with the help of reason, logic
and charm (as I describe in my memoirs) I managed to succeed in furthering
Singapore’s interests in the United Nations and in the ASEAN community.
Golf proved to be very useful.
Indeed, one reason why Southeast Asia, the most diverse corner on planet Earth,
has had no wars in 50 years is that many of the Southeast Asian diplomats and
leaders play golf with each other. This is also a lesson that South Asian
countries can learn from Southeast Asian countries: it’s important to invest
time in developing personal connections with each other. Trust building and
cooperation at the national level is incredibly difficult when there is no
warmth or trust on the interpersonal level.